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Projects currently ongoing ~ C=VGA - CSDOOM64

The C=VGA adaptor

Hi everybody, updates to the C=VGA page (and all the other pages here too for that matter) have not been foremost on my job list recently :-( I am still in the throws of sorting out the mess of all the refunds from orders relating to Maurice. Unfortunately I am only one person and as I am having to do extra work to refund people I have had to put all thoughts of Commodore related matters to the back of my mind.

So, whats happening with the C=VGA ? Well, after a spell of not being able to contact Neil about the project I have finaly managed to have a chat with him and simply put, he no longer can continue his work as his time and expertise are needed elsewhere - BUT - that is not the end of the C=VGA. This is what I have planned, in May I am in Florida on a family holiday, I will be collecting all my Commodore stuff from Neil and any stuff relating to the C=VGA and bringing back to the UK with me. Between now and then I am having talks with two or three people to see if it is viable to continue the project and get it finished this year. If nobody is willing to finish off this project then it will be cancelled and all money will be refunded to those who contributed over the years. On a personal note, to see this project fail would be a huge blow as I have spent a lot of time and a huge amount of money and hardware on it. Also, if this fails I will have the added hassle of refunding the money, most of which has been spent on purchasing components, software and all the other bits and pieces that go into such a project.

So, by the end of May 2007 we will know one way or the other if the C=VGA will be completed or terminated. Here's hoping !

Note : I have just tried to send everyone on the email list an updated note but the list is corrupt (yet again), I can't be bothered to rebuild it for a fifth time so all future news will be made here unless I can find a recent working email database.

Recently a few very good questions were asked about the output resolutions. I thought you'd like to read what was said :

1) What native resolution will the VGA-screen run in?

640x480x60Hz fixed for NTSC, 768x576x50Hz fixed for PAL. This is a limitation of the VGA signal generating chip used. Output looks great on LCD's [CRTs flicker a bit but look good otherwise]

 

2) How can you make the picture crisp when the PAL-output of the 64 is already so bad?

The picture is crisp because the output is a 1:1 reproduction of the NTSC/PAL signal (minus some pixels on the top/bottom/left/right).

 

3) Did you check that Interlaced pictures don't cause lines?

I've had this behaviour with various digitizing-systems (mostly DV) before, and from what i gathered it boils down to this: The standard viewable PAL-signal has 625 lines, and the c64 only provides 624 (312 rasterlinesx2 halfpictures). So apparently the Framebase corrector tries to "fix" this and moves half of the interlaced picture up a little bit. This leads to very ugly lines that only show with interlaced pictures, especially IFLI! The NTSC/PAL-to-VGA routine is built into a hardware chip... It looks pretty good. Not studio-good, but good for home/game use.

 

4) It WILL use the much better Y/C signal as a basis for the conversion and not FBAS, right?

Yes.

 

5) Doesn't 100% smooth scrolling require some sort of weird not-quite-up-to-spec refresh rate most VGAs cannot do? Like 49 Hz or sth? Will there be problems with devices that aren't as flexible with timings as CRTs or TFTs like e.g. a beamer or a Plasma-TV?

The chip uses 50hz to my knowledge. I've watched several PAL and NTSC scrolling demos, there is no noticable tearing or artifacts that I can see, at all.

As the testing of the 80 column mode of the C128 is soon to begin I thought it would be nice to share our thoughts with you all. Test test the C=VGA to its limits it was decided to use the ultimate demo - The VDC Experience - because this demo is so specific in not only the type of c128 you use but also the type of monitor you have, it will be VERY demanding. Not many people in the UK have seen this demom and I doubt ANYBODY in the USA will have ever seen it at all. To give you an idea, you need a German C128 with 64k VDC ram and a 1084 monitor, nothing else will do.

From Neil ~ "The CNC is finally up and running today, I'm running some boards on it now. I've been learning my CAM program, which is 1006 pages long.... I also had to buy a CNC control program to run the machine, which was $160, with its own 500+ page manual. Also I had to modify a script to get my schematic program to convert its format to my machine. I finally got it tweaked enough to try some boards, I'll try to have some pictures to you tonight, if I have time.

Now I should be able to prototype the latest version of the C=VGA board and try it all out. I wouldn't say it's ready to CNC it yet, but very soon... I'll keep you posted on the progress anyway."

Here is the abridged version of the latest e-mail from Neil : -

I'm still here, I assure you I have been making progress lately.... I've just been very busy at work, working overtime, plus going to school....

Having 20 or so minutes every night doesn't really work for engineering stuff, by the time you drag everything out, you're throwing everything back into a box.... (I've moved again, but I won't bother you with that). Working on weekends doesn't help either... We will be having Labor Day this Monday, so I'll get a lot accomplished then. I've gotten most of the problems out of the way, #1 being the fabrication part... I bought a CNC mill about a month ago (see picture to right).

It's a full CNC mill, accurate down to 0.0005" on the finished part (0.00127 centimeters).. it will do aluminum, steel, plastic, brass/bronze, stainless steel, titanium, etc... anything a fullsize can do. I'll be using it for the front and back connector panel on the boxes (see picture to left). All the square holes will be machined into rectangular plates... I'll be buying the material anodized, and then engraving the text into the anodization...

The circuit boards will also be milled (my last stopping point was so that I could get the CNC working to make my next prototype board). I will be using 0.012" end mills, along with carbide drills to make the design... (then a 60 degree spade cutter to score the boards, you break them apart after being milled) the parts will be surface mounted to save cost (labor and component costs) using a hand pick-and-place machine, that I haveaccess to, a Dima FP600. A quick throw through a reflow oven (also in the same building with that machine) will produce a professional quality board. This will save me from having to manually solder 100+ boards (which I would never have time for :) This way, I should be able to do 100 boards in an 8-hour day, and be done.

I have the SAA7110 talking to the microcontroller (I had to write some I2c routines from scratch), I just have to assemble my new prototype board to see if I can look at video...

Right now I am waiting on a replacement defective stepper motor for the CNC, which I will need before making a prototype board. I'm also currently installing a digital readout system (which reads the XYZ position and spindle RPM and displays it on my computer) in case the stepper motors lose "count"... I'm also replacing the power supply with one I found on Ebay... My lab power supply is only 3 amps, not enough for smooth operation. I recieved a 10,000 RPM kit this week which allows me to spin the motor fast enough to do boards. I'm also rigging up a vacuum system with a Hepa filter to keep the fiberglass dust down.

I'll hopefully give you another update once my motor is in and I machine a board or two ~ Neil

All those people who have pre-ordered to kick start this project will be pleased to know that we are now discussing what we can do to your C=VGA's to make them extra special. Rest assured that nobody will have a C=VGA like yours ! We'll keep it a suprise for now ~ Allan

Okay then , this is where we are at the moment : The only working prototype that we have at the moment has be undergoing lengthy programming to align the NTSC 40 column signal, this was difficult and took a VERY LONG time but it is now complete. Suprisingly, when the signal was adapted to try out the PAL 40 column it worked first time !! To prove it worked as intended Neil tested a PAL c64 with a 19" LCD screen running the extremely beautifull but yet very graphically demanding Deux Ex Machina demo* - and it worked superbly. So there we have it, at the moment the 40 columns side of things is working fine so we now have to get working on the 80 column mode. I'll keep you all posted. Oh, I've also updated the questions and answers below.

* If you want to see this demo for yourself you can download the d64 images from here - 1 - 2 - please note that this is a PAL demo only and will not display correctly on an NTSC machine, that is, until the C=VGA is ready ;-)

From Neil - "As mentioned before there is a 50hz flicker that is noticable on CRT monitors.... It does however look GREAT on my 19" Dell LCD at work :) No flickering at all, since there are no phosphors to dim between scans.... "

" I've been using "Deus Ex Machina" for testing, it truely looks beautiful on all of the displays I've tested it with. The scrolling/animation is PERFECTLY smooth, no tearing or artifacts.... The C64 'interlacing' trick of alternating pixel colors to increase the pallete works just as good as on my 1702 C= monitor. The colors on the LCD look more vivid than the 1702, which could be a good or bad thing... I haven't tried to tweak the colors yet, but it shouldn't be hard to do. "

" Now I just have to complete my new prototype, It's built, but I need to change some things around and start the firmware... I only have an hour or two every day after work for personal projects, using my works' facilities and test equipment.... but again, the prototype stage shouldn't take long at all.... the design work has already been done. "

Most of all - please, please remeber folks, this project is being done in Neil's 'spare time' so that is why it is taking so long, be patient, we ARE getting there and I guarrantee it will be worth the wait. Allan

Some questions answered :

Will work with the Amiga 1200 ?

- We've had this question a few times and the honest answer is we just don't know enough about the Amigas audio/video outputs to say yes or no ! When the first units are ready for testing I will be handing out some to a couple of Amiga guys who will be testing various platforms for me. The Mk2 C=VGA will work with a wider variety of older computers and we'll try to make sure the Amiga is one of them if it doesn't work with the Mk1.

Will it work in c128 / 80 column mode ?

- Yes. The C=VGA will work in c64/40 column mode, c128/40 column mode & c128/80 column mode.

- All colours will be supported unlike older adapters where 80 column mode was in B/W.

How much will it cost ?

- Estimates for the basic device are US$35~40, UK£24~30 and 40~45 Euros.

Can I pre-order ?

- No, pre ordering is now suspended.

Will it be PAL compatible ?

- Yes, the device will be PAL and NTSC compatible.

Will it be available in my country ?

- Yes. Worldwide distribution is already in place via the Commodore Scene Importing Service and we have a USA distributor too.

There are already video converters available, why not use one of those ?

- Have you tried one ? I have and believe me they are awful. No converter ever made supports RGB 80 columns in full colour. This device is being made specifically for all the Commodore outputs.

Will it be blurred like older adapters ?

- No, it will be crystal clear and flicker free in ALL modes.

What will the final build quality be like ?

- The final device will be fully enclosed and very tidy. The developer takes great pride in all his projects and his other devices are of the highest build quality.

Will there be a VGA pass-thru port ?

- Yes.

How will the unit be powered ?

- Not sure just yet, we are working on several options but a good option would be to use a currently available source such a Commodore peripheral so that a simple 'piggy back' plug could be used.

Can I use any size monitor ?

- Probably yes but until the prototype is running it is hard to say what the quality of output will be. A 14"/15" monitor would be about the size we currently have so that should look okay. The prototype has been play tested on a 19" Dell LCD monitor and gave superb results. Problems during testing mean that older CRT monitor probably won't work well but most LCD's should be fine.

Will I be able to use my laptops monitor ?

- If your laptop allows VGA 'in' then I don't see any reason why not.

Will it have a scan doubler ?

- This device IS a scan doubler, it also has some nifty DSP (digital signal processing) functions to improve smoothness and flicker.

What will it look like ?

- It will be professionally finished off in a nice box with a pretty logo on it.

What happens if it doesn't work with my monitor ?

- We hope the finished device will be 'firmware upgradable' so if any 'tweaking' is required it can be updated easily in situ by the user.

Will I need a specific monitor type ?

- No. Any monitor with an (S)VGA input can be used, including TFT's ! Probably best to steer clear of older CRT monitors.

Will it do anything else ?

- Well the developer has been working overtime on this and he predicts many enhancements such as 'hot keys' for mutiple computer switching, mouse control and loads of other ideas. All these extra features will cost more so for the time being the first units will be simple Commodore video & sound in/out converters.

What about the sound ?

- Sound is taken from the c64's audio/video port and output through a stereo jack port.

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